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Reduce the bad experience with Random Number Generator

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  • Reduce the bad experience with Random Number Generator

    Do something to actually make the bad experience with rng better. Add transparency, make even bad luck usefull in someway (like give more dust or craft cores out of other parts ... etc).

    Don't hide or make it difficult to players express their anger with bad luck ... this is just rude and offensive and toxic imo.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Sniperweed117 View Post
    Hi!

    I understand your frustrations. While the team does listen to community feedback not everything is going to make the cut.

    Respectfully,
    chris
    Not to be rude but they are pretty transparent, they want your money and you to be quiet

    Comment


    • Gryphon
      Gryphon commented
      Editing a comment
      It would be nice if they was able to do what they advertise thou ...

  • #3
    So, are you asking for the random number generator to be less random? If not, are you asking about cores? Runes? Heroes that you didn’t want?

    Perhaps I should ask the casino to give me part of my money back if I lose 5 hands in a row? Or maybe I should ask my stock broker to guarantee that my next trade won’t lose money?

    Comment


    • Sharden
      Sharden commented
      Editing a comment
      Odds in a casino aren't as bad as here.

    • *Godess*
      *Godess* commented
      Editing a comment
      There's casino oversight. Who is overseeing LGOH?

  • #4
    Any of the ideas you give seens just ... idk ... something not smart ....


    What I am asking is:

    1. Reduce the usage of RNG, if possible
    2. Create more mechanics less based on RNG, like the craft mechanics. Cudgel creation is just stupid.
    3. This game is not at "gambling" category, it is advertised as "puzzle, hard-core rpg, card collecting..." so all you say isn't applicable at all

    So perhaps you could think before writing?

    Comment


    • #5
      Gryphon, many great games exist that combine skill and luck. Practically every card game out there is based on a RNG. A poker player has a 1 in 221 chance that the next hand they get is AA. But, there’s no guarantee as to when they will next get AA. All the strategy books on poker use the probability analysis as a starting point to form strategy. There are sections about managing tilt, which is often caused when you get “bad luck”. I’m sure Legendary players also go on tilt. I’ve made bad pack purchases and made a “tilt” gem purchase on account of “bad luck”. This was my fault.

      Legendary is less based on the RNG now than it was 6 months ago. I agree that cudgel creation is poor. I even posted a mathematical analysis that led me to make that statement.

      The UF can be guaranteed with a certain number of gems. I can compute the exact probability of getting the UF with a specific # of runes & dust. That information should be an input to your approach to the game, not as a vehicle to express frustration

      Legendary isn’t a gambling game, as you don’t get to win money. However, it has a non-negligible dependence on the RNG. I don’t see that going away any time soon.

      Comment


      • #6
        Black Falcon X In any moment I told there isn't great games that combine skill and luck. That is a scarecrow .... lol

        Anyway, poker is a great game and is much more skill based than luck. And ... you don't buy your cards in poker ...


        I used to like a lot this game before 3.0, and I know how to compute probability and I know how to play ... and I could even spend enough to buy any deck. But I think 3.0 is terrible and I think hidding dups is toxic. That is my opinion .... if you think it is good and "skillfull" open your wallet, congrats ... I am happy for you

        Comment


        • #7
          *Did I in any moment ... ?

          Comment


          • #8
            Originally posted by Black Falcon X View Post
            Gryphon, many great games exist that combine skill and luck. Practically every card game out there is based on a RNG. A poker player has a 1 in 221 chance that the next hand they get is AA. But, there’s no guarantee as to when they will next get AA. All the strategy books on poker use the probability analysis as a starting point to form strategy. There are sections about managing tilt, which is often caused when you get “bad luck”. I’m sure Legendary players also go on tilt. I’ve made bad pack purchases and made a “tilt” gem purchase on account of “bad luck”. This was my fault.
            Yikes. Hold 'Em and this game are two very, very different things and not an applicable comparison to make. You'd be better off comparing it to 3 card poker, or Let it Ride, but even that would be a severely flawed analogy.


            As to the original poster, I agree, there is way too much RNG in this game for it to be considered a "strategy" game. Something like crafting cudgels is a perfect and simple example of where skill is irrelevant. You simply cannot craft a cudgel without getting "lucky" when it comes to those. You can't even buy your way out of bad luck like you can with runes, relics, etc. We can move on to all of the other things like runes, but then it gets stickier and more detailed and I'm not going to spend that kind of time on this post. Suffice it to say that RNG dominates this game.

            Oddly enough, with all of the RNG talk (duplicate runes, no cores for cudgels, etc.) I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that a computer program cannot create a true random number without outside involvement (entropy). Finding out if there is an entropy measure in place would be interesting. With the poker example above, I know several sites I played on before "Black Monday" that used mouse movements of all the players as that outside influence.

            Here's a good read about why computers or computer programs can't actually make true random numbers without entropy:

            https://www.howtogeek.com/183051/htg...andom-numbers/

            Comment


            • Black Falcon X
              Black Falcon X commented
              Editing a comment
              I did not say that Legendary was like Holdem. All I said is that probability analysis should be an input on you approach a game and I used an example from Holdem.

            • Root Of All Evil
              Root Of All Evil commented
              Editing a comment
              Probability analysis, sure, but that's not really what's being discussed.

              Unfortunately, the most accurate thing to compare the drop rates to is a slot machine. For example, you beat a Legend Trial boss, and either you get a core or you don't. There's no "strategy" involved, there's absolutely nothing you can do to influence the outcome of what you wind up getting. Same goes for rune drops. There is nothing you can do to influence which rune you get. Sure, you can buy your way to more runes, but that's not strategy, just like putting more money into a slot machine isn't strategy either.

              I've generally avoided the "gambling" discussions on this stuff, but the more I look at it, the more I see a slot machine.

          • #9
            From google search:
            "gam·ble
            /ˈɡambəl/Submit
            verb
            gerund or present participle: gambling
            1.
            play games of chance for money; bet.
            "she was fond of gambling on cards and horses"
            synonyms: bet, wager, place a bet, lay a bet, stake money on something, back the horses, try one's luck on the horses; More
            2.
            take risky action in the hope of a desired result.
            "the British could only gamble that something would turn up"
            synonyms: take a chance, take a risk, take a leap in the dark, leave things to chance


            Risky action? yes, games of chance? yes, just not for money."

            From Wiki:
            "Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome, with the primary intent of winning money or material goods. Gambling thus requires three elements be present: consideration, risk (chance), and a prize."

            We definitely wager money on the packs (or gems) something of value. The event (opening packs) has an uncertain outcome. The cards aren't technically material, but that's very strict semantics. Lets examine the 3 elements.

            Consideration - Should I buy this pack?
            Chance - The terrible odds of getting any of the non guaranteed tiers to drop anything (or this could apply to basically anyplace where something drops in this game)
            A prize - The card we wanted

            LGOH is gambling. Anyone who is spending money on this game that doesn't accept this fact is in denial and needs help. Even our time investment is being gambled to a certain degree.

            Comment


            • #10
              As I mentioned in another thread. For N3twork, RNG = $$$

              When it’s guaranteed or simple straight mechanics less money for them. Basically, less RNG is antithesis to their business model.

              Comment


              • #11
                RNG is not truly random. The devs really need to review it. I'm so annoyed with the legendary trial bosses. I've been attacking them since inception. I have only been able to forge 1 cudgel. Meanwhile, I have a guildmate who has crafted 5. We have similar decks and experience. This seems statistically impossible if random was truly random. What are you going to do, LGOH, for parity? I'd like to see transparency on your so called RNG algorithm.

                Comment


                • #12
                  *Godess*, see https://n3twork.vbulletin.net/forum/...aining-cudgels

                  This analysis proves that it is expected that some people have crafted 5 cudgels while others have only crafted 1. I think it’s unjustified and a poor gaming experience to have this mechanism. However, it is what it is. This means that your experience is not statistically significant evidence to suggest that the RNG is flawed.

                  Comment

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